Howard Brown – Journey of Author and Cancer Survivor

In a world where triumph over adversity defines the human spirit, Howard Brown stands as a shining example of resilience and inspiration. As an author, Silicon Valley entrepreneur, and interfaith peacemaker, Howard’s journey took an unexpected turn when he faced the formidable challenge of battling cancer not once, but twice. His unwavering resilience and unwavering spirit transformed him into a sought-after speaker and consultant, impacting businesses, nonprofits, congregations, and community groups. Co-founding social networks that connected religious communities globally, Howard’s contributions extended beyond professional success. Today, alongside his wife Lisa and daughter Emily, Howard’s ongoing work as a patient advocate and “cancer whisperer” inspires others to rise above challenges and make a positive impact. Visit to discover Howard’s remarkable story and embrace the power of resilience in your own life.

One particular source of inspiration for Howard Brown on his remarkable journey was author Dr. Robert Wicks and his book “Bounce.” Drawn to the book’s teachings on resilience and the ability to bounce back from adversity, Howard embraced the invaluable wisdom it offered. This newfound perspective became a guiding light as he confronted the challenges of cancer head-on. Inspired by Dr. Wicks, Howard’s unwavering determination, and the support of his loved ones, he defied the odds and emerged as a two-time stage IV cancer survivor. Today, Howard continues to pay forward the lessons he learned, serving as a beacon of hope and encouragement for others facing their own battles. His story serves as a powerful testament to the indomitable human spirit and the transformative power of resilience.

Embark on a transformative journey of resilience and inspiration with Howard Brown’s captivating book, “Shining Brightly.” Available for purchase at, this remarkable memoir chronicles Howard’s extraordinary story of triumph over adversity. From his battles with cancer to his remarkable achievements as an entrepreneur, interfaith peacemaker, and healthcare advocate, Howard’s experiences will leave you motivated and uplifted. Discover the power of resilience and unlock your own potential as you delve into the pages of “Shining Brightly.” Don’t miss this opportunity to join Howard on his incredible journey – click the link now and embark on a life-changing reading experience.

Dive into the captivating world of Howard Brown’s remarkable book, “The Art of Connection: A Transformational Guide for Entrepreneurs and Influencers.” This must-read masterpiece is now available on Amazon, where you can embark on a journey of personal growth and discover the secrets to forging meaningful connections. Through Howard’s profound insights and practical wisdom, you’ll uncover the transformative power of authentic relationships and unlock the keys to success in business and life. Don’t miss the opportunity to delve into the pages of “The Art of Connection” – click the link below to embark on a captivating reading experience that will leave you inspired and empowered.

Purchase “The Art of Connection” on Amazon: Click here to read the book

To connect with Howard Brown and explore more of his extraordinary work, feel free to reach out to him directly. You can contact him via email at or give him a call at 248-770-3191. For additional information and resources, visit his website at Don’t miss the opportunity to engage with Howard’s inspiring journey, insightful teachings, and transformative perspectives. Connect with him today and discover how you too can shine brightly in your own corner of the world.


So let’s bring on Howard give Alice everybody give him a huge warm Amazon welcome awesome hi Howard Howard welcome welcome welcome welcome great to see you very good oh I’ve got him muted I think if you’ve muted him I think he was muted there we go sorry about that Howard hi hey Amy and Jamie I’m so glad to be here I’m the guy with the book in the front of the carousel apparently so I like that yeah and don’t worry about being muted by her it it happens to me all the time and um after 16 years you just smile and and and pause I just wish we had a mute button that was like just that wasn’t only like on our lives oh it is you do it with your eyes you do it like this just that look that look that look that’s the look it’s the look marriage fun stuff okay but we’re not here to talk about marriage we’re here to talk about Howard we are and his book shining brightly yeah um so I just wanted to say um you know I want to congratulate you you congratulate you on on writing your Memoir um could you tell our audience the unique way that you went about researching your past for this book I mean this is on this is about you right 100 um so the the pre-story is that I’m in a coffee shop with a friend David Crum and he he says you know he’s saying goodbye to me I had stage four colorectal cancer metastatic cancer so he didn’t know if he’s going to see me that much that more often and so I come out of the bathroom and on a napkin he wrote chapter headings and he said do you want to leave a legacy to your daughter and your wife and to the world I said not interested I said I know what I’m good at and writing is definitely not one of them grammar and punctuation are usually optional with me he says go home and talk to Lisa So Lisa laughed at me and I called him back the next day and I said David I have one request he said only one and he said he said normally uh potential authors have lots of different requests and questions I said nope just one for me I said if you’ll allow me to record the most influential important people in my life I will write a book with you I heard dead silence and he said I have to get back to you we’ve never done that well listen it’s it’s it’s it’s October of 19 2019 and little did we know that six months later we’re heading into covet so I’m going cancer to covet it worked out perfectly I had the most special journey of interviewing 158 of the most important people in my life that were still alive and to compile transcripts which became drafts drafts who became chapters and voila wave your magic wand three years later I actually have a published book um it took a lot of work it was 901 steps and and pressing the green button on Amazon to launch your book is only the starting line but boy was it a cool Journey really cool so Howard I’m curious this is a little like off the Beaten Track but but when you started writing that book you were in stage four cancer and you were not you were like writing your will at that point too right yes a hundred percent um I had no idea you know if if I was going to get to what’s called no evidence of disease uh remission is after five years no I I still active uh you know cancer patient colon cancer patient uh doing scans doing blood work uh doing uh what’s called uh added chemotherapy to make sure that everything stayed in place uh I still today have a chemo Port I still now go quarterly for CAT scans and blood tests and uh every quarter that I get What’s called the no evidence of disease report is a good quarter and I live I live quarterly basically but I’m good the further away you go the best it is to get away from the disease so I have one more follow-up question about that because I’m curious do you think that by by writing this book that contributed to you being well today I think it’s a part of it um was it therapeutic was it fun uh absolutely 100 um it was I was B-Line focused I’m not your typical published author and um my publisher David Crum you know I have interesting stuff in this book okay um he said how many endorsements do you you need uh David he goes I need five to seven well I have 65. uh I have 62 pictures in my book because I like pictures in the books that I read I give homework at the ever at the end of every chapter I talk about Charities and good causes that I like to do and so I get calls to action and this book is not a cancer book this is a book about resilient life living and doing good deeds in the world that that’s what this book’s really about and I think that’s something that um people can take away from here uh hello everybody out there in twitch and uh the other platforms coming over here to Amazon drop your chats in there and this I’ll drop the link in the chat here that’s the one that we’re chatting to so so something for everyone that’s listening um uh as a cancer survivor myself don’t wait until you get something like this to decide to take action on those bits of information uh that Howard has said those acts of giving those acts of caring and understanding and taking action for creating something wonderful you can do that today without the stimulus of something to coerce you into action so and uh something else that you mention there before like every quarterly check you’re like you got the no evidence of cancer for those of you who have had cancer or or closely related to someone that does you understand what that means um for other folks out there unlike other diseases or like when I broke my leg it’s like oh your legs healed now in cancer they won’t say that they won’t say oh yeah you’re disease-free or it’s gone or you’re healed nope they’re like um today there’s no evidence we’ll look again tomorrow it’s like come on it’s been 10 years it’s stop frustrating me so yeah uh it it’s a it’s an ongoing the shadow I guess in the mind now yet the the resilience of someone like how to not only continue yet to also give you the opportunity to have an understanding of great things uh from his book shiny brightly yeah so it’s available below it’s on the Carousel and it’s actually on a bit of a deal today yeah so I was taking a look at it it’s normally but it’s on sale today it’s only 26.10 and actually oh really you can get that I got it for 22. yeah yeah that’s paperback all right and you can yeah you can get it for free on Kindle unlimited if you’re on Kindle that’s right so you can get it for for free right now see on that Kindle version so that’s awesome um uh so I noticed that like the the there’s a light related theme around like it’s like kind of this Central thing that goes all the way through your book why is light specifically featured so prominently so I think everyone got a taste of this during covid um covid you had to isolate you were restricted on what you could and couldn’t do whether you actually followed the rules or not was up to you individually right uh get a vaccine out of Acts um but Darkness Darkness when I will tell you that having a you know two stage four diagnosis once you’re 23 I want you to 50. life came to a screeching halt and it got dark very quickly and you can stay in that Darkness but that darkness is lonely that Darkness can be depressive uh that Darkness can provide for other malaise and anxiety and so light is that way out that it’s it doesn’t solve everything but that light and the light that we have within each other and the light that we offer to others is the thing that we call out and that’s what helped me um I kept understanding that I had some lessons to learn here and that not only did I actually the first time where I was a deer in the headlights the second time you know 26 years later I was a marine on a merition I was I was a veteran okay I wanted to live to see my daughter graduate high school okay I had to put that out there and and and reach for that goal each day even when I was feeling my worst now um I was very public about my diagnosis I shared on Facebook and I shared on um different platforms and it was much more available when I got sick the first time in 1989 no cell phones no internet and no real computer use we went to the library a library and got a book on cancer with my parents so you’re thinking about really an analog world to the digital world and and having two stage four diagnosis as a young onset 23 okay that got his life back and got to rebuild and then at age 50 again where I actually was stopped in my tracks but this time I’m married for 22 and a half years and I have a daughter and um I wasn’t ready to go yet but the light is so important because if we shine this light that we have okay we can become a Force multiplier for good and that’s where our purpose that’s the why that’s the why at the end and when you and your definition of light is the inner light that’s in all of us yes yes 100 all right so it’s not getting a flashlight and walking up to people I’m going boom white no I I it’s your it’s it’s the inner things and so you know for the things that they think back for a second all right how many times do we do this grandma grandpa Aunt Uncle someone uh old friend what about the lessons they taught you and in my first chapter I teach a lesson three lessons one on kindness it’s never too old to be kind to yourself and to someone else okay the other one is actually giving it’s really good to give it feels good to give right that was a give until it hurts right and then the second is that we live in a broken World individually and as groups and as tribes okay and we have to heal so those three lessons are in my first chapter I mean that was drilled into me as a five-year-old by by great grandma Bubby Buddhist from the old country in Lithuania so we get lessons so how many times do we stick a time out and think about that and then go really apply it to where we are right now it’s great behind this and uh giving a two elements that energetically the more you do it the more you get it in return it’s not like oh I have a hundred dollars if I give you fifty percent of it I’m left with 50. if you’ve got a hundred percent kindness you give away a hundred percent you now have three hundred percent it increases the more you do it the more kindness you give the more kindness you have the more uh giving that you can be uh the more opportunity you have to to give and that comes back most definitely but you also have to receive that light and so I had to learn how to actually accept help in my time of need so whether it was a joke uh someone mailed me a book or they actually uh told you know basically just said a prayer for me we had people that brought meals over brought supplies over uh that were willing to drive me uh you know to my daughter’s soccer game um so you let their light come into you you and that was part of the healing process as well and even though I’m at a different point in healing I still let People’s Light and I learned a really big lesson that in this world it’s actually not what you get it’s actually what you can give and I had to allow people to give to me and share their light with me and that helped me get better that’s a great point about the opportunity of receive how many people love to give oh yes I’m a very kind-hearted person how many people love to receive oh no no no don’t no no excuse me you’re stopping the opportunity of someone giving so if you don’t know how someone give by accepting um the positives except say thank you you’re giving that person the opportunity to feel that dopamine and serotonin and positive self-worth of doing an act of kindness so there has to be a flow nature is great like that if you constrict in nature you get Decay so if you create a bottleneck in the flow of energy of giving and receiving you’re going to create a disruption in your life so um like we say a balance there has to be a balance for an example I love this analogy or this process okay everybody out there we’re going to do this little thing of just giving so go ahead and breathe out now breathe out don’t breathe in just keep breathing out now you’ve got to inhale you’ve got to receive as well as give our body’s a great example of that excellent example wow yeah we’re really we really um we really um I just messaged in front of mine he just messaged me he’s he’s watching right now hello ctg hello welcome hi Monique Veronica Stephanie hello hello hello welcome to welcome to Faustino hello PC Phil excellent excellent awesome Mom g’day welcome everyone that’s awesome yeah um we are big we are big Believers in giving and one of the events that we just went and recently took we were learning even more about uh giving and Karma and healing and what he was saying is one of the things that holds people from healing back the most is holding on to resentment and if they can’t seem to heal from something it could be their karma and to start giving more and and we’ve seen this happen with people when they start to give more suddenly it just starts opening the energy and it starts to flow things a little bit more and they start to get unstuck and out of where they’re at right absolutely resentment and negativity are part of the darkness hi Wendy welcome Wendy yeah uh sorry that it was resentment and negativity and then you dropped out for a second or I said our part are part of that Darkness yeah absolutely um and um low waveform energy when you look at the different uh language bases g’day Evans Wendy uh Jamie hello all hello the um before we jump into where I really want to go which is that the happiest side the more exciting side uh I personally the very first moment um if you go back for a moment and just share what it felt like the moment you heard if this isn’t too personal what it was when the doctor says cancer what what’s that moment like a lot of people don’t understand how that is and so why it’s so important to go get testing well I’m gonna getting screened because it’s colorectal cancer awareness month we get screened because we can save you the pain of chemotherapy side effects clinical trial surgeries go get screen free mammography go get screened for your prostate go get screen for your cardio a lot of people skip their doctor’s appointments during covid so go go go do that that’s a great first of all first lesson so okay so I’m 23 years old I’m with Mom and Dad I’m in Boston and um I’m told I have stage four T Cell Non-Hodgkin’s lymphoma and I didn’t hear another word the numbness the deer in the headlights I looked up at this young other doctor and I said what is he talking about I look back at my mom and she’s in tears my dad’s a statue because they all dealt with it differently and uh we we didn’t know much and we had to learn and we went home invited my my twin sister to uh the dinner table and my dad got that book on cancer and we cried a lot and it was still numb and in denial for quite a while um but um I started chemotherapy and I was on the way and you’ll learn in the book that I actually had three major Miracles I’ve had minor Miracles but major Miracles you know happened and so the first one not to you know bury the lead my twin sister was an exact match everything was going very dark I was failing the chemotherapy cocktails but she matched 100 on May 24th of 1990 they extracted bone marrow out of her hip bone and then they cleansed it and they injected it in me and they had limited my my immune system from chemotherapy and full body radiation and we watched my immune system grow so it was either gonna film me right away or is he going to kill me over time or is going to work and it worked and so I have to tell you that something I’m very proud of and um all of a sudden the infusion stopped this little bag is hanging there okay and I took it this is the bag of bone marrow I call it my little bag of life okay oh wow there’s a picture in the book okay I said Mom stick this in your purse she goes yeah I don’t know why I did that but I have it today to commemorate this one Miracle of my sister’s bone marrow allowing me to live wow how cool is that that’s very cool I’ve actually had that procedure done where they’ve taken bone marrow from my hip me too and put it in my chin painful painful but so that was the first time the first time deer in the headlights uh and and a lot of learning now roll the clock forward 26 years okay Wendy Norman by the way says that’s awesome oh it is awesome congratulations that is awesome thank you for that uh so roll the clock forward 26 years uh you know I’m a successful entrepreneur and I IPO some companies and I moved back to get the band back together raise our kids in Michigan and I go in for my 50 year old check now the age is 45 unless you have family history or symptoms you can go much sooner um to get a colonoscopy and I I’m an athlete I play basketball it’s my happy place and I wake up my wife’s got my hand and we we look at the doctor and I say everything’s good he said No and when I find something it’s usually bad news Well it turned out to be stage three colon cancer in June of 16 and immediately they removed 13 inches of my colon and margin and lymph nodes immediately you start with a chemo port and chemotherapy and none of that worked Back Into Darkness back into fighting but this time as I said I was a marine on a mission I had I wanted to see my daughter graduate and I didn’t know life is not guaranteed so yours get busy writing your book or knocking off your bucket list do it now right um because you never never know so that time though um I I sat in a dark room I I actually went by myself too because get off this clinical trial and I asked this doctor I said stage four colon cancer I’ve already doctored Google that says I have four percent chance of living you know 12 months and I said a guy I’m 53 years old I’m otherwise healthy I said what are my chances and he said one word rarely and he left the room that was probably the darkest I let myself go because I couldn’t believe that I I I I did I wasn’t ready and I couldn’t believe it so from then that moment on we went the next day with my wife next to me on my left my sister on my right my twin who saved my life and my mom on FaceTime and went with my oncology team I was the only one not crying I let him cry for about 15 minutes and I stopped everyone I said no what are we going to do about it what are we gonna do with let’s go for the hell Mary because you got to get busy living and that’s what happened and again I built that mental toughness it’s like a muscle I built that resiliency up I built my resolve and it takes real work to do that you have to work at it you have to work out and be determined and and set that goals to take the extra step yeah and that’s that’s great and that’s um that was similar to my experience when I was told hey I he said cancer because I thought there was other issues there so I had surgery for some other things and they discovered it yeah and then they’re like uh surgery was good but here’s the bad news and he says the word cancer and then he said a whole bunch of other stuff I did not hear it because both my grandfathers died of cancer I wasn’t there either so I’m just sitting in a room by myself going going through genealogy of all the people in my uh hereditary line on either side that have had cancer and no longer here and he talked for like 15 minutes and all I got at the end was you need to go see this person so from Specialists of Specialists so it is kind of like a when when a tragedy um or or a major shock happens for people and you’re there as a friend or a support and you say just do things from say hey let’s go have a drink of coffee let’s go have a cover guide them for the first couple of days into action step because they are in Shock yeah like I literally had to go we’re eating dinner now because Jamie was just like you know I was like no we’re eating dinner now like you need to go take a bath it was like it was almost like that you know so that’s one of the things that we’ve learned in regards the whole as opposed to what can I do or how can I help or if you need me here I am don’t ask just do just do stuff yeah and secondly um I also realized that the medical profession cannot say oh there’s an out for you yet I know there always is there’s always an opportunity it may be slim or not so going for that so your mindset on focusing on what you’re going to do next and as Amy touched on earlier writing this book sharing you had a project or something to complete the drive forward which is very bad I was curious if you felt it contributed I feel it did so that was why I asked that question oh absolutely it was because I got to meet people I call I talked to my Camp counselors when I was 12. I had to go find them on Facebook I talked to doctors from 30 years ago and some things we couldn’t remember I brought back all my schoolhood Chums that was a wild one because we were just talking about the old days and it was a blast so yes you set your mind on something forward in the future that you had to finish to go to and when you do that it shifts your mindset and the cancer start just starts to fade away in the background yeah it was helpful it was helpful but listen I have to admit it all right I’m a two-time stage four cancer survivor first of all I am grateful second of all I am blessed and third of all I know I’m lucky I hit the lottery ticket the lotto tickets because um a lot of people in the stage four World they don’t make it and it’s not because they didn’t want to make it or finish their chore or finish their goal it’s because the disease burden you know was too great and and God called their number so I understand that it was part of the solution and so what I tell people life is a team sport cancer is a team sport family is a team sport teams win my team and in the digital world 26 years later they help me prayers from all countries in the world people sending you know that positivity but really my medical team and the right decisions okay the angels on Earth are the infusion nurses and my caregiver wife and my caregiver parents these are angels on earth like you were Amy to Jamie when he needed his help okay these are the people the these caregivers that get you through the day and take over for you when you can’t yeah so so well that was all that but that’s led to who you are now so everybody’s life has these ups down sideways and it’s not so much a comparison of oh look what I do well look what I did it’s more of like every single person on the planet has gone through a process to be where they are right now and right now there are great things that you are doing uh the book is one of them what else are you doing um go ahead no well I think no yeah we’ve got questions go ahead okay we already asked go ahead I can tell you that I am speaking and I’m telling um my story uh I’m speaking on stages uh I’m on lots of podcasts I am on live stages um I it’s it’s amazing um I’m speaking in the healthcare sector I’m speaking in the corporate sector um and and speaking is actually how I make my living now uh selling books is only part of that and I coach others I lift up others because I lifted myself up and a lot of people need lifting up now and and so that’s my survivorship coaching so I’m doing those three things now and uh this has gone from a Silicon Valley entrepreneur okay to someone who now is just all about spreading the word and and giving giving back nice Joanna wants to know um she says did you ever have your support team give up on you act like they’re just waiting for you to be gone she says I feel like a burden huh that’s a very hard question so I will tell you that I I I personally that did not happen to me but but when you counsel and you cancer whisper to enough patience in treatment and caregivers taking care I hear the stories and um it’s it’s brutally difficult for me to hear that because my family rallied the troops I rallied the troops around me and I brought people in and the only thing I actually say in that circumstance is that you get other support Vehicles there’s other nurse Navigators social workers there’s mentors that can help you um get in touch with me and I can help you I I don’t it’s unfair but there are a lot of people that are facing this battle alone or I I heard of someone I was just at a big event um for colorectal cancer at a golf course in Tucson for colorectal cancer awareness month and they said my wife left me after diagnosis she just didn’t want to go along for that ride and that’s very sad roll the clock forward he’s met someone new that is on board on the train and and it took a while but for those four to six months he was very lonely now but he ended up showing some resilience and went back so great question hard question yeah and also Joanna the word she says I feel like a burden how much of that is you feeling that way and not really true right because um especially as women we have a we are the ones that help other people we are the caregivers we’re the ones that take care of our family and take care of our children and take care of our parents and and things like that so when we actually need the help most of us have a really really really hard time asking for it most of us feel like like I know you know most of us feel like like if we’re not taking care of other people then we’re not doing our jobs and we’re not adequate as a woman I want to tell Joanna that that there are so many resources please get in touch with me I will direct you to the right resources I can help great I wanna I wanna help great I love that and they can find you on LinkedIn they can find you on in Social Facebook Instagram absolutely yeah okay great please do Joanne is a lovely lovely woman she’s like she’s joins us almost there we see her almost every week I feel like she’s part of the show she’s part of the honey Heart part of the Honey Honey hi family we feel like we know her pretty well so she’s very sweet lady everybody just uh do Google search so go on the insta Facebook uh LinkedIn um and you can reach out to Howard Howard Brown and the um author of shining brightly I could talk to him forever I could talk to him for an hour so I just have one last question you go ahead I’ve got a last question oh God two questions we got two last questions okay so I know myself uh even though through all those moments in my history uh that have been extreme there’s also been little moments of delight or humor um that I personally gravitate to are there any funny stories about your about your experience this is unfortunate about colon cancer but um what happens unfortunately is that we go to the party a lot and um so uh my wife and daughter got me men’s depends men’s depends so that I didn’t have an accident so that was a funny thing that we they still kid me about now it’s not really that funny but it’s funny enough and all that stuff about it we had some light moments on that you have to be able to laugh about it and Wendy said um my husband is a 15-year cancer survivor of uh colon stage three and she said her husband had a great attitude and never lost his humor that was the thing Jamie never lost his humor either there was a couple very funny moments the first one and just to clarify that doesn’t mean I was happy all the time I had my humor you had to climb out of the hall again oh I’m still here oh yeah my dad hold on I’m here still but he gets in the car he just had he just had uh the cam the the surgery done like the big one he got the whole thing done and uh the doctor was trying to give him Oxycontin he’s like I’m not taking it and I’m like I don’t like drugs I’m like if they’re trying to give you that they’re expecting you’re going to be in a fair amount of pain you better take it right so we get in the car and he’s just kind of loopy but he’s like denying that he’s loopy and he’s just like I wasn’t loopy yeah because I just feel I just feel and I go used because they didn’t buy you dinner first oh God and he started laughing and then the second one was after a series see this is the kind of support you can have out there Joanna the support you can have the second one was he came home he’d been like going to several doctors and it was like he had to go to the prostate the one and then he had to go to the like the urinal every specialist says well I can’t see anything I’ll send you to this person I can’t stand it I’ll send you the I got but every time because it was proctology every time he went to see a new doctor he had to get the treatment done so he said so he’s got to examine with a finger for anybody that’s confused by how that would be yeah so he comes on one day I go how’s the doctor today he’s like how do you think it is every time I meet a new doctor I’m checking out his hand size check out how big his fingers are he’s like hi nice to oh can we have the secretary coming tiny little head anyway awkward moments everywhere exactly and go forward so what’s your last question the last of the second question the last is that question so this is not as light but so your book touches on four light related truths throughout the book so I wanted I was just curious what those four truths are okay so the first truth okay and I’m gonna read a little bit because I don’t know word for word but um each of us has their own special light that’s the first one we shine more brightly when we share our life with others which we touched on third true resiliency the kind that is strong enough to overcome trauma and seemingly impossible odds rests on letting the light of others in being accepting help and as our light as as our light okay circles the world we can illuminate and celebrate our own diversity those are the four lessons there awesome very very cool very cool very cool awesome well thank you so much for your time we’re always honored that um people take you know they could choose to spend their time in a lot of ways we’re always honored that you spend it with us yeah we’re honored that you spent it with us um they can find you on socials and um yeah well you allowed me to shine brightly with you today so I got to put on my shades we gotta allow you to shine brightly yeah Jamie I mean the flashlight I mean those blue lights flickering so but thank you allowing me to shine with you today both you Amy and Jamie and um if someone’s gonna you know click on the carousel on the Kindle or the book I I greatly appreciate that uh please reach out to me and also I’m looking at some yoga pants right now so we got to go get into more detail they’re Joanna’s favorite yoga pants yeah they’re great pants actually they’re high waist and the Flair bottom yeah look at me awesome well thank you so much Howard we’ll see you again soon keep shining keep shining everyone 

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